Sunday, October 15
Is Carlos Delgado a Hall of Famer?
He's gotta be, right? Perhaps he'll be this generations Jim Rice. It's kind of absurd how many Hall of Famers are playing right now, what with Clemens, Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, Bonds, Piazza, Griffey and Thomas hanging on and younger guys like Pujols, Beltran, Mauer and Santana just entering what should be their prime. To say nothing of the mass of others in between.
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16 comments:
Hancock really should have been the player of the game.
There are two questions to ask - will he get in the Hall of Fame, and should he get into the Hall of Fame? The first will depend largely on what the Mets do this year, as voters are swayed by rings. The second can't be answered yet, but he's certainly a great player, and I love him. I've even erased this post a couple times to look at stats, and if he keeps it up for three more years, he's probably in. But as you noted, there may be a logjam. All the guys you cited are in, and then there are, off the top of my head, the other guys he's competing with...
Others who will definitely make it: Manny, A-Rod, Pedro, Jeter, Rivera, Pudge, Bagwell, Biggio, Hoffman.
Others who might and are, fair or not, ahead of Delgado: Bernie Williams, Schilling, Smoltz, Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones. A lot of the first two is politics, i.e., high profiles, but they could certainly back up a claim. I won't pretend to know what's up with an Ichiro bid, but it would be interesting.
On your guys: Pujols is already a no-brainer, because he's not going anywhere. Beltran and Santana have to log some more good years (Mauer isn't even on the radar), but they've got the talent and it's looking good. And let's not sleep on Vlad, or Migs Cabrera. No way they're in now, but they have superstar talent. Mauer is a baby, let's let him grow.
I won't even touch Bonds, Sosa, etc., but looking at it this way, with all these names, I think the odds are probably against Delgado right now, but there's time.
I was by no means suggesting that Santana, Beltran and Mauer were already in the Hall of Fame, Ply. I was just throwing out names of great young players off the top of my head who should just be reaching their prime.
Looking back, I'm not actually all that sold on Beltran making the Hall, looking at his stats, unless he keeps up a 40-bomb pace for another five or six years, which is unlikely. Santana is a much better bet - he should be winning this third straight Cy Young this year (I still can't believe Colon won last season), and shows no signs of slowing down. What a beast.
Oh, and Ben, you've lost the privilege of calling me "Ply." Sorry.
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I'm not 100% sold on Delgado, even though I'm sure there are people with numbers that don't come close to his that are already in the Hall of Fame. It's too late now to change history, but I really feel like .300 should be the minimum average for a batter to make the hall, unless his power numbers are absolutely overwhelming.
I assume when you say that you're talking only about first base/DH types and not lithe glovesmiths such as Ozzie Smith or Pee Wee Reese.
.300 is a tough benchmark, and would disqualify obvious Hall of Famers like Yount and Sandberg who possessed a nice combination of power, speed and defense. But you're right about Delgado, I'm now thinking he does need to pile up some impressive home run totals in the next few year to solidify a spot.
Definitely not counting people who got in for (or in part for) their fielding. I'll admit I have a pretty hardline and irrational stance on the hall, since I think too many people are in the hall that don't excite me-and it should be for legends, not above average players. In fact, I would not vote for Ripken: .276, with 431 homers, and may be the only man alive who feels this way. Who cares if you don't get injured in a non-contact sport--should Michael Cage (?) be an NBA hall-of-famer for his consecutive games streak?
You are correct about Ripken: you are the only man alive who feels that way.
The thing about Ripken that's so impressive (aside from his absurd consecuitive games streak) is the fact that he hit as well as any shortstop since Ernie Banks while fielding his position with such great skill (two Gold Gloves). He changed the way people look at the shorstop position long before slick fielding offensive machiness like A-Rod, Jeter, Tejada and Nomar arrived.
I guess I posted before seeing your comments last time LTS, I think you explained what I meant best when you said "a player should only be a HOFer if you can argue not just for his strengths but also for his lack of weaknesses." Since I am not a baseball expert (just a Ripken-hater) I'll turn to my sport: Would you put Ben Wallace in the hall? I say no way, but then I would maybe let Rodman in (I don't think personality/off court stuff is a relevant criteria), because while not great offensively, he was not quite as inept, and his rebounding (13 vs. 10.7), points (7 vs. 6), and FG% (52% vs 48%) are better, plus he has more rings.
Garciaparra and Jeter's range was much, much better when they was young
Tejada has a cannon for an arm, but you're right, not always so slick
you might pull out some range factor scores that say otherwise, put Nomie going into the hole for a ball and doing that throw of his during those first few years was the very definition of slick
Rodman was a better and far more versatile one on one defender. I think Wallace, as is often the case with shot blockers, is bit overrated in terms of the complete defensive package.
If we wanted to get really dorky we could compare their defensive stats with league scoring averages during those periods thrown in, maybe for another day. The question now is: Does Rodman ever get in? The answer: Not while David Stern is alive.
I wrote something else in two long paragraphs that Louis summed up in two sentences at the exact same time. We'll go with the efficiency.
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